but what kind of position did this woman get hired for that she's apparently the Pope of PoC's and speaks for them?
Please note, that I'm not putting this person in the position of speaking for all PoCs, nor have I ever. She speaks only for her subgroup. And, no, I will not identify that community as that's rather beside the point.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't seek second opinions by seeking out other writings, other viewpoints.
Who says I haven't? What I've found is that she is speaking the views that her community officially holds. Now, individuals within her community no doubt hold different views, but they're not the individuals who could destroy my academic career by pasting the label of racist on me.
and when you say "she was sent out by her community" - was she elected, was there a community group that specifically picked her?
I mean what I said. Because of her credentials that allow her to move in the world of academia, she became the voice of the people from her community who would not otherwise be heard. She does this with the full authority of the leaders in her group.
she has no authority to speak for, say, the Latino, Hispanic, Black, Asian, or any other community and you have no obligation to listen to her opinions on those.
Not to sound snippy, but where did you get the idea that I was generalizing to all those communities? I thought I'd made it clear that this colleague was speaking only for her community. Except, knowing that one group holds the views that she does means that others could as well, and without knowing which groups hold which views, writing PoCs becomes a minefield.
I promise you, whatever demographic she belongs to, I could point you to someone of that same demographic who would disagree with her.
Of course you could. But I don't need your help on that. I've had contact with lots of communities--but only a small fraction of what's out there.
Would you feel that a man was obliged to believe that everything that department chair said was the opinion of all women just because he didn't know many others?
That's not an analogous situation. The colleague I mention isn't a radical voice in her community. I kind of understand her logic, though I've spent hundreds of hours arguing with her on her position.
Why is that, because you don't know all the others, that your views of what that "community" wants or doesn't want, what would be beneficial or hurtful to that community should be decided by the one person you're coming into contact with?
You're massively overgeneralizing.
Because I know that me (as a white person) writing about my colleague's group is viewed as harmful by the group, then I'm going to respect their position and not write about them. And, because I know that one group of PoCs holds that view, I've now become concerned that others could as well. Since I have no way of knowing where groups fall on that continuum, it puts me into an untenable position. Unless I know that it's safe to write about a certain group, it's better to not.
Then, to have you (as a white person) judging me negatively because you only see the results of the decisions I've made doesn't exactly provide the positive encouragement to take risks with characters.
And why should this be where you stop, when you could go out and talk to other people of that community, other people of other communities, and read their books and listen to their voices and, at the very least, verify whether this woman is right or wrong in her assertion that this is how other people feel.
Again, why do you assume I haven't? Why do you assume that anyone hasn't?
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Date: 2009-02-20 04:32 am (UTC)Please note, that I'm not putting this person in the position of speaking for all PoCs, nor have I ever. She speaks only for her subgroup. And, no, I will not identify that community as that's rather beside the point.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't seek second opinions by seeking out other writings, other viewpoints.
Who says I haven't? What I've found is that she is speaking the views that her community officially holds. Now, individuals within her community no doubt hold different views, but they're not the individuals who could destroy my academic career by pasting the label of racist on me.
and when you say "she was sent out by her community" - was she elected, was there a community group that specifically picked her?
I mean what I said. Because of her credentials that allow her to move in the world of academia, she became the voice of the people from her community who would not otherwise be heard. She does this with the full authority of the leaders in her group.
she has no authority to speak for, say, the Latino, Hispanic, Black, Asian, or any other community and you have no obligation to listen to her opinions on those.
Not to sound snippy, but where did you get the idea that I was generalizing to all those communities? I thought I'd made it clear that this colleague was speaking only for her community. Except, knowing that one group holds the views that she does means that others could as well, and without knowing which groups hold which views, writing PoCs becomes a minefield.
I promise you, whatever demographic she belongs to, I could point you to someone of that same demographic who would disagree with her.
Of course you could. But I don't need your help on that. I've had contact with lots of communities--but only a small fraction of what's out there.
Would you feel that a man was obliged to believe that everything that department chair said was the opinion of all women just because he didn't know many others?
That's not an analogous situation. The colleague I mention isn't a radical voice in her community. I kind of understand her logic, though I've spent hundreds of hours arguing with her on her position.
Why is that, because you don't know all the others, that your views of what that "community" wants or doesn't want, what would be beneficial or hurtful to that community should be decided by the one person you're coming into contact with?
You're massively overgeneralizing.
Because I know that me (as a white person) writing about my colleague's group is viewed as harmful by the group, then I'm going to respect their position and not write about them. And, because I know that one group of PoCs holds that view, I've now become concerned that others could as well. Since I have no way of knowing where groups fall on that continuum, it puts me into an untenable position. Unless I know that it's safe to write about a certain group, it's better to not.
Then, to have you (as a white person) judging me negatively because you only see the results of the decisions I've made doesn't exactly provide the positive encouragement to take risks with characters.
And why should this be where you stop, when you could go out and talk to other people of that community, other people of other communities, and read their books and listen to their voices and, at the very least, verify whether this woman is right or wrong in her assertion that this is how other people feel.
Again, why do you assume I haven't? Why do you assume that anyone hasn't?