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Questions about the definitions of words
One of the questions I've had during Racefail09 and since I've been following ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
50books_poc is something that I'm not sure where or how to ask, but I figure since I'm at a loose end, I'll just go ahead and ask it.
Who counts as a Person of Color? I realize that there are some rather clueless folks who, in not getting it, will say that we're all people of color and that this whole race thing is silly and why are we still talking about it?
But I'm not trying to ask that, because I definitely believe that PoC is a legitimate term (however problematic it might be in some contexts) and that we need to have a way to discuss race (especially in America and the SF/F genre) and words to describe the people, groups, and racism that's going on.
What I'm trying to ask, without being hurtful or clueless: who counts as white or non-PoC and who counts as PoC? And does that definition change by national borders?
For example, let's say there's a person who had one grandparent who was a PoC, but all their other grandparents were white. Are they white, or are they a PoC? After all, it would mean one of their parents was mixed race, after all. What's the deciding factor in it? Is it whether they look white or get treated white (and yes, you totally do get "treated white")? Is it self-identification?
I have to confess feelings of deep discomfort in talking about it like that, because it brings up rather horrible images of the eugenics charts the Nazis used to draw up to determine your amount of Jewishness and whether your lineage qualified you to exist or not. *shudders*. And I think I'd rather throw myself off a building than to be part of something like that
I also wonder how useful using the term "PoC" is when speaking outside of the context of the United States. Because the category and words used to describe people who are clearly on the receiving end of prejudice and racism here in the USA may not be useful in other countries. Especially since what counts as a PoC and a minority here in America may be the mainstream majority in another country.
I think it is a question worth asking, if only to make sure that the definitions of "Person of Color" and "non-white" and the other phrases we're using are not hurting the very folks that they're intended to define. I've seen comments, blogs, and other essays by PoC who very beautifully express that even the words "person of color" or "non-white" can be hurtful, and above all else, my intention is to make sure that at the very least, I'm not hurting the very people I intend to support and be an ally to.
I'd really appreciate people's thoughts, but I'd really appreciate it also if people didn't come just to argue or to be deliberately unhelpful. I'd also appreciate it if there were no cookies. If you think I'm deep and meaningful and doing a good thing, then, um, good for you, I guess, but I'm more interesting in learning than getting pats on the back.
If you want to hand out pats on the back and praise and support, I suggest going toverb_noire and asking what you can do for them, or buying books from your favorite authors of color, or checking out the many, many links that ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
rydra_wong has compiled on this issue and finding the many excellent things said by the fans, writers, bloggers, and wonderful human beings of color who have spoken out on these issues and put up with so much and spoken so much truth.
Because they are long overdue for recognition and support, and I can honestly say I've had far more than my fair share in life.
50books_poc is something that I'm not sure where or how to ask, but I figure since I'm at a loose end, I'll just go ahead and ask it. Who counts as a Person of Color? I realize that there are some rather clueless folks who, in not getting it, will say that we're all people of color and that this whole race thing is silly and why are we still talking about it?
But I'm not trying to ask that, because I definitely believe that PoC is a legitimate term (however problematic it might be in some contexts) and that we need to have a way to discuss race (especially in America and the SF/F genre) and words to describe the people, groups, and racism that's going on.
What I'm trying to ask, without being hurtful or clueless: who counts as white or non-PoC and who counts as PoC? And does that definition change by national borders?
For example, let's say there's a person who had one grandparent who was a PoC, but all their other grandparents were white. Are they white, or are they a PoC? After all, it would mean one of their parents was mixed race, after all. What's the deciding factor in it? Is it whether they look white or get treated white (and yes, you totally do get "treated white")? Is it self-identification?
I have to confess feelings of deep discomfort in talking about it like that, because it brings up rather horrible images of the eugenics charts the Nazis used to draw up to determine your amount of Jewishness and whether your lineage qualified you to exist or not. *shudders*. And I think I'd rather throw myself off a building than to be part of something like that
I also wonder how useful using the term "PoC" is when speaking outside of the context of the United States. Because the category and words used to describe people who are clearly on the receiving end of prejudice and racism here in the USA may not be useful in other countries. Especially since what counts as a PoC and a minority here in America may be the mainstream majority in another country.
I think it is a question worth asking, if only to make sure that the definitions of "Person of Color" and "non-white" and the other phrases we're using are not hurting the very folks that they're intended to define. I've seen comments, blogs, and other essays by PoC who very beautifully express that even the words "person of color" or "non-white" can be hurtful, and above all else, my intention is to make sure that at the very least, I'm not hurting the very people I intend to support and be an ally to.
I'd really appreciate people's thoughts, but I'd really appreciate it also if people didn't come just to argue or to be deliberately unhelpful. I'd also appreciate it if there were no cookies. If you think I'm deep and meaningful and doing a good thing, then, um, good for you, I guess, but I'm more interesting in learning than getting pats on the back.
If you want to hand out pats on the back and praise and support, I suggest going to
verb_noire and asking what you can do for them, or buying books from your favorite authors of color, or checking out the many, many links that rydra_wong has compiled on this issue and finding the many excellent things said by the fans, writers, bloggers, and wonderful human beings of color who have spoken out on these issues and put up with so much and spoken so much truth. Because they are long overdue for recognition and support, and I can honestly say I've had far more than my fair share in life.